How much can you talk a price down for a used car?

I have done my research on kbb and other websites giving me information on what the cars values are. I plan on putting money down and financing. There are two particular used cars I am looking at one is for $17995 and the other one is $20995. I just need suggestions on where I should start off at price wise. I know to start of low. But any comments and suggestions would greatly be appreciated. Thanks!|||any time your dealing on a used car there's a lot of give room on them,you should be able to get it down at least about 1500.00 bucks ,there's a high mark up on used cars,but if you talk right and deal right you can get it down a lot,good luck with it.|||your welcome.

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|||idk|||1 bit of advice gained from painful experience:





Get EVERYTHING in writing, and I do mean everything. I asked if a car had a CD player (it looked like it did) %26amp; the salesman said yes. It turned out to be a mock one! I asked what the phrase "Ford lease vehicle" meant, if that meant someone had owned it for a year %26amp; then turned it in for a new lease car. The salesman said yes. It turned out to mean it had been a rent-a-car - in Florida. I asked if I could have my mechanic check it out, but he didn't have an opening until Wed. AM. This was Friday night after 6. I knew there was a 3 day rule but I asked if the weekend would count, because usually those contracts mean business days. The salesman said the weekend wouldn't count, and the 3 days would be up Wed. evening. When my mechanic looked it over he said it had been in a major head-on crash, and not to buy it. He said it wouldn't show up on CarMax because it was a Ford rental %26amp; their mechanics would take care of it in-house %26amp; off the books. The manager denied it, and said the weekend did count in the 3 day thing, so now the car was mine or pay over 1K in rental costs. Live and learn. So I learned 2 things: always get everything in writing, and NEVER do business with Ourisman's World of Ford in Alexandria VA on Rte. 1! Jerry's Ford in NoVA is honest, though.|||if it is a new vehicle try starting at 17% ...go home after making offer...wait for phone to ring...it will..unless it is a hot selling car...